Noetic Theory is a branch of metaphysical philosophy concerned with the study of mind and intuition, and its relationship with the divine intellect.
The theory of noetics centers around the idea that the human mind is capable of affecting or even doing work to the physical world. It is suggested that thought and spirit are not in fact imaginary, but Bose or photon based. Meaning essentially that the mind can be quantified by formulae which describe quantum materials such as light.
I started reading up about this a little while ago, and thought it made a little bit of sense, and i was wondering what others thought about this topic.

As of this "Noetic Theory" itself, this is the first time I have heard of it.

But affecting the physical world through human mind, is easily seen. A simple example would be Shaolin monks (who challenge what is considered humanely feasible through a whole area bad ass stuff, I leave you to check that).
So, before going into whether this theory is real or not (which I frankly have no idea), I always take the example of these monks as a proof that we ourselves do not even realise half of the potential our minds hold, as it is dullified by easy materialist goals and behaviour that shun away anything that is deemed weird, and automatically categorized as "supernatural". Therefore I do believe that the human mind is capable of affecting the physical world.

I understand from your topic that you want to shed a light on this from a purely scientifical point of view, but still I suggest you to check this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtle_body

Therefore I think that explain these things through bosons, photons and other mathematically quantifiable methods is probably the only way to proove that such things exist to most people.

I wonder, what made you interested in this topic, telekinesy ?

First of all do you have any sources? The Wikipedia article isn't really helpful and the other results of 3 minutes googling do not look very informative either. At first glance seems like your textbook example of esoteric nonsense. I fully acknowledge that we do not understand most of what is going on in our minds yet, but as far as I know there has never been any experimental evidence for telekinesis gathered under controlled conditions.

Until it can produce some sort of tangible result, it remains a appealing but rather useless concept (Not even wrong). And it doesn't really help that once again words like "quantum" are thrown around like there is no tomorrow.

Written by whatsacow on 15.03.2010 at 00:32

It is suggested that thought and spirit are not in fact imaginary, but Bose or photon based. Meaning essentially that the mind can be quantified by formulae which describe quantum materials such as light.

What this boils down to is "we could achieve Bose-Einstein-condensation or light emission (photon) with our minds. This means we should be able to describe our conciousness in terms of the Schrödinger Equation"
And I don't actually think my thoughts are a wave function...

Edit: Yes, Shaolin Monks, like fakirs do have some remarkable abilities, but with respect to their own body. Heating up your hands or lying on a bed of nails is totally awesome but does not imply you can influence anything outside of your body with your mind

True true, you might be completely correct. I just asked about telekinesis, I did not underly that I have evidence for it or anything.

I recognize that this wikipedia page can be considered pure esoteric nonsence. As wikipedia's credibility is quite low. It could easily be a whole lot of bullshit actually.

Me giving that shaolin monks example meant this : As such things are possible, maybe things even greater can be achievable aswell ? That is my bottomline.

I am afraid I cannot argue about any Bose-Einstein thingie, although it seems quite interesting I might read more details to that some other time.

Written by [user id=104505] on 15.03.2010 at 01:06

First of all do you have any sources?

I read an encyclopedia on metaphysical theories, and this topic came up. I then went to the www.noetic.org site and looked at some of their publications and ordered them in through the library.

Also, i believe that the mind is like any other part of our body. It has potential beyond just what we use it for.

And also, i only used the wiki page as it was easier for new people to the topic to understand then if i rambled off the pages of inforation it takes to understand in the books.

Oh yeah this stuff is real enough...I had this girlfriend once who kept telling everyone what was going to happen to them all the time and it wound up happening...and I used to watch the television with her and she would just start randomly stating things about people and what they've been up to and what they're going to do...

I personally believe in the ideal that if I think that something is going to or not going to happen...like, my personal belief of that thought existing in the fragment of time...I can use my intuition to change it...

There's this theory that states that our collective minds/forms of consciousness and the universe are interdependent. It's hard to explain over the internet, it's even difficult to really explain fully in person, but essentially what it means is that in some complex way (that I can't fathom, tbh), our minds created the universe and its existence is dependent on us, just as we are dependent on the universe to exist, and we do this without realizing it. It seems whack, but this to me holds just as much credibility as the theory that some dude who lives way up in the clouds created us and the universe, or is as plausible as the fact that we were just created, somehow, and are just gonna die with our bodies and cease to exist.

Although I don't completely understand it (and I don't expect to in this lifetime, or the next, should there be one), I do believe that it is possible that we, as well as every other life form within the universe, regardless of how menial, contribute to our entire existence as we know it.

Ultimately, I do believe that our minds are capable of influencing things in the physical world.

Also, everyone keeps saying how we only use a small percentage of our head. I haven't verified it yet, but if this is true, then imagine the possibilities that could happen if we were to have full control of our minds.

Written by Nexus on 15.03.2010 at 09:21

There's this theory that states that our collective minds/forms of consciousness and the universe are interdependent. It's hard to explain over the internet, it's even difficult to really explain fully in person, but essentially what it means is that in some complex way (that I can't fathom, tbh), our minds created the universe and its existence is dependent on us, just as we are dependent on the universe to exist, and we do this without realizing it. It seems whack, but this to me holds just as much credibility as the theory that some dude who lives way up in the clouds created us and the universe, or is as plausible as the fact that we were just created, somehow, and are just gonna die with our bodies and cease to exist.

Although I don't completely understand it (and I don't expect to in this lifetime, or the next, should there be one), I do believe that it is possible that we, as well as every other life form within the universe, regardless of how menial, contribute to our entire existence as we know it.

Ultimately, I do believe that our minds are capable of influencing things in the physical world.

Also, everyone keeps saying how we only use a small percentage of our head. I haven't verified it yet, but if this is true, then imagine the possibilities that could happen if we were to have full control of our minds.

I agree, and science has shown that when a person dies, or when their thoughts cease to exist, they weight a fraction less than when they were alive, possibly meaning that our thoughts have mass.

Written by Nexus on 15.03.2010 at 09:21

There's this theory that states that our collective minds/forms of consciousness and the universe are interdependent. It's hard to explain over the internet, it's even difficult to really explain fully in person, but essentially what it means is that in some complex way (that I can't fathom, tbh), our minds created the universe and its existence is dependent on us, just as we are dependent on the universe to exist, and we do this without realizing it. It seems whack, but this to me holds just as much credibility as the theory that some dude who lives way up in the clouds created us and the universe, or is as plausible as the fact that we were just created, somehow, and are just gonna die with our bodies and cease to exist.

Although I don't completely understand it (and I don't expect to in this lifetime, or the next, should there be one), I do believe that it is possible that we, as well as every other life form within the universe, regardless of how menial, contribute to our entire existence as we know it.

Ultimately, I do believe that our minds are capable of influencing things in the physical world.

Also, everyone keeps saying how we only use a small percentage of our head. I haven't verified it yet, but if this is true, then imagine the possibilities that could happen if we were to have full control of our minds.

That is kind of vague to say the least. What makes "some complex mechanism" that is inherent to beings within a universe yet somehow created it in the first place as plausible as god or even the fact that we somehow came into existence?

Of course our minds "create" our existence in the way that we only perceive it the way we do because of our conciousness and mind.
Also we only get to know the outside world as filtered through our senses and thoughts. To infer that this somehow makes reality dependent on us observing it, is a fallacy as well as that we should therefore be ably to manipulate it by merely using the abstract concept of our minds.
Actually our minds depend on reality as they are a product of a physical process.

You could count the chemical and electrical changes in our brain as influence, but they don't really have any spectacular effects as long as you discard the rest of the body.


The Question about our brain capacity is interesting. With enough training, a genetic defect or recently even certain drugs, people can achieve outstanding feats. Just look at chess grand masters, savants or the mental twists that were necessary to create modern math. I just don't think you can measure this in terms of percentage or even an IQ. The mind is just too complex to have a load-bar like a processor and the amount of numbers you can memorize or add up is no indication of your overall intelligence.
Which actually makes the whole affair a lot more fascinating and worthwhile to investigate.

Written by whatsacow on 15.03.2010 at 23:56


I agree, and science has shown that when a person dies, or when their thoughts cease to exist, they weight a fraction less than when they were alive, possibly meaning that our thoughts have mass.

Nope, Mr MacDougall, the only guy who conducted these experiments, didnt't consider lost weight due to exhaling and loss of liquid at the moment of death, not to mention his sample size and the accuracy of his scales don't deserve to be called scientific.

Written by [user id=104505] on 17.03.2010 at 02:10

Written by Nexus on 15.03.2010 at 09:21

There's this theory that states that our collective minds/forms of consciousness and the universe are interdependent. It's hard to explain over the internet, it's even difficult to really explain fully in person, but essentially what it means is that in some complex way (that I can't fathom, tbh), our minds created the universe and its existence is dependent on us, just as we are dependent on the universe to exist, and we do this without realizing it. It seems whack, but this to me holds just as much credibility as the theory that some dude who lives way up in the clouds created us and the universe, or is as plausible as the fact that we were just created, somehow, and are just gonna die with our bodies and cease to exist.

Although I don't completely understand it (and I don't expect to in this lifetime, or the next, should there be one), I do believe that it is possible that we, as well as every other life form within the universe, regardless of how menial, contribute to our entire existence as we know it.

Ultimately, I do believe that our minds are capable of influencing things in the physical world.

Also, everyone keeps saying how we only use a small percentage of our head. I haven't verified it yet, but if this is true, then imagine the possibilities that could happen if we were to have full control of our minds.

That is kind of vague to say the least. What makes "some complex mechanism" that is inherent to beings within a universe yet somehow created it in the first place as plausible as god or even the fact that we somehow came into existence?

Of course our minds "create" our existence in the way that we only perceive it the way we do because of our conciousness and mind.
Also we only get to know the outside world as filtered through our senses and thoughts. To infer that this somehow makes reality dependent on us observing it, is a fallacy as well as that we should therefore be ably to manipulate it by merely using the abstract concept of our minds.
Actually our minds depend on reality as they are a product of a physical process.

You could count the chemical and electrical changes in our brain as influence, but they don't really have any spectacular effects as long as you discard the rest of the body.


The Question about our brain capacity is interesting. With enough training, a genetic defect or recently even certain drugs, people can achieve outstanding feats. Just look at chess grand masters, savants or the mental twists that were necessary to create modern math. I just don't think you can measure this in terms of percentage or even an IQ. The mind is just too complex to have a load-bar like a processor and the amount of numbers you can memorize or add up is no indication of your overall intelligence.
Which actually makes the whole affair a lot more fascinating and worthwhile to investigate.

Written by whatsacow on 15.03.2010 at 23:56


I agree, and science has shown that when a person dies, or when their thoughts cease to exist, they weight a fraction less than when they were alive, possibly meaning that our thoughts have mass.

Nope, Mr MacDougall, the only guy who conducted these experiments, didnt't consider lost weight due to exhaling and loss of liquid at the moment of death, not to mention his sample size and the accuracy of his scales don't deserve to be called scientific.

I know it's vague, and I can't really give much more detail to it as I myself can't quite fathom the concept fully, or see how it would make sense. However, that doesn't startle me at all as I don't figure I'm ever gonna make much sense of our existence, or what potentially comes afterwards, if anything at all.

Yeah, but that's more of our perception than anything, which is not what I'm bringing up. I mean that our minds create our own existence in the sense of our physical world, as opposed to our realities and what we create in our heads.

However, I definitely agree that the concept that we aren't using our minds to their fullest capacities is pretty amazing, and I'm eager to see what else they found out about them. I think it's almost impossible to figure everything out about the brain though, as already in itself, it is such a complex thing, but everyone's minds work differently as well. One of the biggest questions posed by people who study the brain, is why they can't figure it out.

Also, your body loses water, carbon and a lot of other things when you die, which contributes to the loss of weight. It really depends on how much weight is lost, and if we can actually prove what it's linked back to.

Fair enough. im just throwing stuff out there, and i just find the concept interesting

Written by whatsacow on 17.03.2010 at 23:54

Fair enough. im just throwing stuff out there, and i just find the concept interesting

Yeah, you never know what else is lost, though!