No way, there is no thread about the universe in Metalstorm? Was there ever one?

Anyway, the universe is always a great thing to talk about as it always sparks up many debates. I personally beleive that our universe is part of a galaxy that is a part of many galaxies that is part of many nebulas, etc... that exist inside of a layer (a molecular outer film that is very thick and is very hot) that seperates us from other nebulas that also have layers around them; you could call them shields if you want. Basically, that everything inside of our layer would consist of humanoid life. There would thus be multiple constructs of this sort orbiting around that hold different alien lifeforms all made up of a collection of nebulas. All matter around these great orbiting constructs would be simply nothing; not even space; just empty white space. Another arguement one could further get into is that there is one great being, even greater then God, who would control all of these orbiting contructs of multple alien lifeform, including our own, which would doubt my beleif in God very much. I would pawn God off to a being much more powerful then himself who controls all layered nebulas of alien lifeforms outside of our own plane (but that's not a discussion to be held in here...maybe...maybe not...)

Discuss...

Universe is an endless mystery . No one would ever know what in there . As you said , it is so complex and without any ending that i too believe that our solar system is the small one from many others. I also believe that out there , in other solar system there is a form of life . I don't know if they have big eyes or ears , or perhaps they have more modern things than us.
About God , i disagree with you. I mean God is the creator of all, if it isn't god will be not god at all. God is the beinginig of everything, well that i believe , my opinion

some vatican officials once said "if we manage to discover an alien civilisation,the first thing we'll ask them is do they know about god and the ten commandments?"
the universe is,i think,this enormously uncomprehensible greatness,almost limitless(note that only in mathematics does there exist a infinitum) and to say that there is no alien lifeform besides us is quite possibly the biggest lie in history-think of this: half a trillion stars in our galaxy 500.000.000.000.000.000 stars,ok? then, let's say there's a 1 in a billion chance of life being spawned on a star's planet system,so 500.000.000 planets with life on them-then a one in a million chance that there is a technically advanced civilisation-500 civilisations in just one galaxy.and then there's more than a million galaxies out there.
btw what fills the space between galaxies?and will it ever be possible to travel between galaxies?

@Kap'N Korrupt: what u are describing IS god...

through my theory, i have proof enough for myself that aliens exists:
the universe is endless. therefore, the molecules have been put together in every possible combination. there are a limited number of combinations.
compare with a dice: it can only give u 6 different results. if u get a 3 in the first throw, u know that sooner or later u will get the 3 again.
this proves that there actually are exact copies of us. there is an exact copy of metalstorm, with the exact same discussion with the exact same words as i use now. there is an exact copy of u, and this copy is reading an exact copy of my reply to this thread.
do u understand? since the universe is endless, but the combinations of everything is limited, there must be other life forms than us.

@Achor. No, I don't get it. But I'd be happy if you'd take the time to explain it a little bit more detailed.

@Kap'N Korrupt.

The Universe. Good thing you opened this thread, it should be there.

Well, about alien life, I don't really have an opinion. It seems most logical to me that there are other lifeforms out there. (Like cursed post) But if there would be, I don't think they would have anything in common, as there situation can be MUCH different from ours. So, I think if there would be alien life out there, it is not even sure it is alive. If you get what I mean.

And about your 'higher-than-god' theory, could be very true as well. A sort of hierarchy of gods, layered to the top. But then, what would be on top? Nice question.

@Nervel:

lets say ur building a house of lego. u have 100 pieces. this means that u can make a certain amount of versions of this house. when u've build all these different houses, u have no choice but to build a house that u've made before. u repeat urself. its the same with the universe. there are a limited number of elements in the world, and a limited ways that all the atoms can be put together and so on. but the universe is still endless, which means that the universe starts repeating itself when it has done all the different combinations, like u start building a holus u've already made with ur lego pieces.

Aha, I see. It is still a little bit difficult for me to grasp, but I'll try to comment on the conclusion you draw from that.

So, you say that if there are only limited combinations, we shall have the same combination again, after some time. But are those combinations limited? At first, we have about 100/200 atoms (does anyone know the correct number) and those 100 atoms can make a LOT of molecules, as they can combine in different numbers.. and those molecules make a lot of different combinations of materials..

So even if the universe exists so long that for example the same baby would be born again, then it would still take an infinite number of that same baby, as that baby is a different baby after each experience it meets.

So I think that there is some truth in your theory, but I also think it would take close to infinite years to repeat something 'big'. And with big I mean for example this conversation, as you need to be the exact same and I need to be the exact same.

Hope that was clear, it turned out a bit of a messy thought.

@Nervel: u got a little something wrong. im not talking about time here... im talking about space - meaning, if the universe is endless, there are already exact copies of us. somewhere in universe copies of us are having the exact same discussion in this exact second.

Ah, I see. My bad, sorry.

But, is the Universe endless? Scientists say that the universe is expanding, so it cannot be endless, can it?

and that question gets us to another discussion: if the universe isnt enldess, what is there beyond the border? this is why to me the universe is endless. beyond the border, there would most probably be another universe. but i dont see these as different universes, so i just claim that the universe is endless

But i don't understand of what combination you are talking about. Who knows what are the line of limit for this combinations if the universe is not explained

Good thing to see that people have responded in this thread...I didn't know if anyone cared about talking about the universe in Metalstorm and thought that was why there was no thread ever...at least as far as I can remember anyway...

@lupas: I think that we could agree that there are a heirarchy of Gods indeed...but then this would get complicated...one God for every universe maybe? I could agree with that at least...then one God governing each construct...

@cursed: Yeah, us earthlings pushing the bible at the first humanoid alien or alien from other constructs...it's just our nature for wanting everything to beleive our so called perfect views and ideals...

@Achor: What I was describing was not God in your sense of the word...what I was describing was one ultimate being controling all that is instead of all that is around him...

@Nerval: Well, what would be on top would be a being that was evolved far beyond Godlike figurement and is thus the one governing being for the heirarchy of Gods...


The whole alternate universe theory has always been something I've beleived to be true but it would be a hard thing to stumble upon...

I think that universe is really complex, enormous, full of mysterious things for us, but I think that we have that idea because we don't know it very much, so, of course that there are a lot of unsolved misteries.

Written by [user id=15104] on 15.10.2006 at 17:47

@Nervel: u got a little something wrong. im not talking about time here... im talking about space - meaning, if the universe is endless, there are already exact copies of us. somewhere in universe copies of us are having the exact same discussion in this exact second.

sounds funny, but not realistic.

what you are basically saying is that somewhere in this universe molecules has formed in exact the same way as we are now, that there is a second "Archor" and a second "Nervel", who are having this discussion right now on a different forum in this universe, which is exactly the same, because the molecules are connected to each other in exact the same way?

The chance that will ever happen is extremly close to zero.

The creation of life on the earth exists of such unique events, the chance that will ever happen a second time is simply not possible. Big anorganic molecules will not find each other again, and form into larger molecules and eventually into cells. Then, the odds the cells will evolve into organisms, that could only happen on earth, not on any other place. Because the balance between the concentrations of the substances in our atmosphere. It is unique. DNA will not be formed again, and especially not formed exact the same way as we are now. Your theory is mostly based on what "could happen", simply because you are filling in an unknown area - the universe. You might be right, but as long as there is no proof of your theory, I would like to say it just sounds like a nice fairy tale. Atoms simply don't fuse exact the same way on different planets. Because as we know, just as every human, every planet is unique in their substances and environment, so that would make a copy of us close to impossible.

What I do believe is that there could be organism somewhere in this universe who lives from a different substance than oxygen. For example, a planet where nitrogen is the mayor gas, when oxygen might be poison for the organism living there. I believe there could be other lifeforms in the universe, but they will be so different from us. The environment was different, so they had a different evolution. They live from different substances, and maybe have different senses. However, this is all theoritically. We first have to find proof of "other life" before we can assume these kind of nice stories can be right.

Now, for the universe itself. I would like to believe the universe is a part of a bigger world. I would like to base my argument purely on what I know about the atoms and molecules, compared with planets and solar systems. They show a suspicious amount of similar properties. An atom and a solar system are both based on a nucleas surrounded by "something" that is spinning around the nucleas. In the case of the atom the electrons are spinning around it, when in the case of a solar system, the planets are spinning around the nucleas(or sun).

These small comparison made me think about what we really are. Maybe we just live on an electron of a bigger world. And maybe in this bigger world there is another world that is even bigger. Why is the universe endless? because maybe we are just one layer of this world. Maybe there is an entire world living in an atom of my keyboard. Why not? There are quite some similarities.

We cannot say what the universe is, and I hope we will never discover it, because I believe it is not a goal of humans to discover everything about this world. The universe is a place we should not enter(there is no oxygen and other essential substances after all). The universe created a border for us, a bit like a law that tell us to stay on this planet - or electron. After all, it is just frightening to think what we might discover. and I miss the entire goal of discovering what the universe is. Isn't life good as it is now? or are we humans really that much afraid to die after a black hole? The world doesn't change after we are gone, and so does not the universe.

Written by [user id=15104] on 15.10.2006 at 18:13

and that question gets us to another discussion: if the universe isnt enldess, what is there beyond the border? this is why to me the universe is endless. beyond the border, there would most probably be another universe. but i dont see these as different universes, so i just claim that the universe is endless

Anything that exists is included in the universe. It's the idea of everything that exists, so if it has an end, which I think it does, it's not as if it's an object inside another object or anything to that effect, but it's just the only object that exists. At the edge of the universe, existence simply stops. Because the universe IS existence, the boundaries of the universe are the boundaries of existence.

@Asphyxia.

So there must be 'non-existance' there. Interesting as well.

@Achor.

But what if the universe would dissolve it's own borders, by, in some weird mathemathic way, twist around in itself and stuff. Tiwst itself in that way, that if we come close to a border we are suddenly spawned, warped or just moving back to the middle. I think that would be possible, but not possible for us to grasp.

@Blackgir.

The chance that will ever happen is extremly close to zero.

I can understand your way of thinking, but if we agree that the universe is endless, than it doesn't matter how big the chance is, because the tries are endless.

@Blackgir

The creation of life on the earth exists of such unique events, the chance that will ever happen a second time is simply not possible

Or you sure on that

The Universe has endless chances that we rarely know 0.5% off them.
Life in earth has been as it is couse , as you said , find on earth the perfect combination to evolve. But i'm sure that there is a life simialr to us .
It has been proven that if there is water onto other planet , there could found life there. To begin life there should be air and water and with a good climate to support life .

Written by Lucas on 16.10.2006 at 11:47

@Blackgir.

The chance that will ever happen is extremly close to zero.

I can understand your way of thinking, but if we agree that the universe is endless, than it doesn't matter how big the chance is, because the tries are endless.

exactly my point: the universe is ENDLESS (as far as we know) and if it is endless, there should actually be an endless number of exact copies of us so ur argument doesnt really convince me. if the universe WOULD have an end, it would be a whole different story...

You say the Universe is endless, that is something I'd like to argue with you about.

I think it could be very possible that the Universe is twisted in itself. Twisted in such a way, that if we go north we end up south or something like that. Could that not be very possible? In think at least as possible as the theory that the universe is endless.

@Nervel: as far as scientists know now, the universe is endless.
as i mentioned earlier, its possible that the universe has an end. if so, i believe that there would be another universe next to our universe. i believe that there would be an endless number of universes, that would all fit in the term multiverse, a universe containing smaller universes.

i actually dont really like talking about stuff like this, coz when u really think of the meaning of the word "endless", and try to understand the concept of the term, u get all dizzy. its too freakin big for us humans to philosophise about.

I don't think that the concept of the term 'universe' is a dizzying thing...my original post sums up what I think of the whole issue and therefore, I can easily philosophise about it...I would be curious to see if the boundaries I conjured up actually do exist...it is sad to think that I will never see it but who knows eh...I mean, if 'universe' in the whole sense of the word is endless to how you think of it being, then there could be multiple groups of nebulonic constructs...

Written by [user id=15104] on 17.10.2006 at 00:25

@Nervel: as far as scientists know now, the universe is endless.
as i mentioned earlier, its possible that the universe has an end. if so, i believe that there would be another universe next to our universe. i believe that there would be an endless number of universes, that would all fit in the term multiverse, a universe containing smaller universes.

i actually dont really like talking about stuff like this, coz when u really think of the meaning of the word "endless", and try to understand the concept of the term, u get all dizzy. its too freakin big for us humans to philosophise about.

This is something I find hard to believe. I can't imagine how the Universe could be endless, I simply can't. I'd still go for my own mathemathical theory, would solve some stuff in an easy way, me thinks.

well, if the universe actually had an end, what exactly would there be on the other side? there has to be something. i dont really believe in nothingness... how could there be "nothing"? i really dont understand that, and i cant imagine that there would actually be NOTHING! and... define nothingness... if u go to the end of the universe, do u like hit a wall or something? does the nothingness have the same colour as the space? what IS nothingness?

I really doubt about the universe that has an end. Our universe has many other solar systems similiar to us or even bigger . I really can't imagine the universe as a box , it can't be

Written by [user id=15104] on 17.10.2006 at 16:35

well, if the universe actually had an end, what exactly would there be on the other side? there has to be something. i dont really believe in nothingness... how could there be "nothing"? i really dont understand that, and i cant imagine that there would actually be NOTHING! and... define nothingness... if u go to the end of the universe, do u like hit a wall or something? does the nothingness have the same colour as the space? what IS nothingness?

Nothingness. Well, there is of course no way I can describe, because I think our speaking/writing language does not know the words for it, and our brains are not smart enough to understand such a big thing. I definatly believe that there is an nothingness rather than an endless, that's for sure.

But may I ask what you think of my theory. The Universe as a boundary-free shape. Who says the Universe has to be flat, round or like a ball? Why can't the Universe be repetive, instead of endless?

@Nervel:
hmm... if the universe was repititive... well, actually hehe that could be the answer of how there would be exact copies of us i mean, if we would send a space ship straight out in space, and let it go in the same direction for who knows how long, maybe it would come back to our solar system. but couldnt this solarsystem just be an exact copy of ours? and now maybe u say that this would be proven wrong, coz the pople in the space ship wouldnt be missing in the other universe. but if its the exact copy of ours, then they would have sent away a space ship too hehe, so then it would be totally impossible to prove if its the same planet or an exact copy...

Well, yeah.. Possibly. It's getting me all confused now.

So many universes.. I wonder if there is an exact version of this conversation around, where I do know what to say.

what fills the space between galaxies?
are you the adepts of a closed universe or a open one?
i myself think we live in a closed universe,because simply of the fact that some guys working for the us gvt heard an "echo" of the big bang in 1970s

Written by Lucas on 18.10.2006 at 12:51

Well, yeah.. Possibly. It's getting me all confused now.

So many universes.. I wonder if there is an exact version of this conversation around, where I do know what to say.

Maybe in 2000light years from earth, you could find the same metalstorm site and same topic who knows

There is no certainty whether the universe is infinite or not, but it is commonly assumed to be finite, though incredibly large (calculations suggest a diameter of over 150 billion light years). Furthermore, being finite does not necessarily mean the universe has edges; like Nervel proposed, it could be closed in itself like the surface of Earth (only in four dimensions rather than three, which makes it quite hard to picture )

cursed: The space between galaxies is "filled" mainly by nothing with a few hydrogen atoms thrown in (about one atom per cubic meter) and electromagnetic radiation.