Communism
Posts: 508
Visited by: 294 users
Original post
Posted by Unknown user, 28.08.2006 - 01:36
This thread is one for educating the mass of metalstormers just what communism is about, why communists believe it is a viable economic model, and the history of communism, and hopefully there are some commies here apart from me who can contribute to discussion about the finer and undecided points (what form should the revolution take, where/when, etc).
Here's a few starting points that i want to make quite clear:
1) There has never been a communist society existing on a national level. None have ever claimed to be communist. Of the very few that call themselves socialist, hardly any are truly socialist in the actual literal definition of the word. Referring to china, north korea or russia in this thread is pointless, as none of those are connected in any meaningful manner to Communism.
2) Communism is the STATELESS society achieved after an international proletarian revolution, which abolishes the oppressive capitalist system in all it's forms, and to it's deepest roots. I'm talking total and complete wiping of the board and remaking it all. No more money, no more companies, no more countries, no more employment, no more religion (negotiable according to some communists), an entire life change. This comes to be after a lengthy and natural transition period known as socialism, where an organization of workers coordinates the activities the proletariat for it's own benefit.
3) Communism means revolution, and not some wussy social revolution. It cannot be achieved through the political system, the political system must be overthrown and destroyed, as it (like all institutions of our society) exists solely to concentrate power (and therefore money) in the hands of a few. The scale and conduct of the revolution is a matter of debate amongst communists.
4) Anarchism (in it's pure form) is exactly as above, except that anarchists believe that we will be able to, and must, slip straight into communism after the revolution, so i count anarchists as communists. Henceforth then people adhering to the principles stated above will be referred to as marxists.
Question, comment, challenge or even flame, but please oh please at least have read this post before writing "COMMIES FVKK3D UP RUSSKIELAND!!11", or even a coherent and valid post raging against the PRK, PRC or (former)USSR. And any other MS commies lend a hand please!
| Fhuesc Posts: 1328  |
Written by Ellrohir on 31.08.2009 at 09:10 I dont fight for a socialist state, well not in theory, since what i want is communism. But i have to be realistic, so the first step towards communism is socialism. How will the socialist state will work? The state will only be a guide, this guidance will be obviously based in the common interests of the people (probably based in marxism-leninism, but who knows maybe something else happens). The same will happen with the repression of the bourgeois and the reactionary proletariat, the state will be a guide, but the execution will be in hands of the armed and revolutionary proletariat. How things like schools, public services, etc will work? the idea is also that the community decides what to do, taking care in what other communities say and need. But is this fails, the state will lend a helping hand. But this help will be with the idea that with the past of time, the community learn to do this without a state, thus the state will no longer be needed and communism can be achieved.
---- Hasta la victoria, siempre! Until victory, always!
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| flickaa Posts: 201  |
I heard..... that the millitary in united states acts as a socialist society XD its quite irrational but it does makes sense..
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| Ellrohir Heaven Knight Posts: 8664  |
What are the symptoms of such a behaviour?
---- My rest seems now calm and deep Finally I got my dead man sleep 
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| Fhuesc Posts: 1328 |
How can the military act like a socialist society if they aren't a society in first place?
---- Hasta la victoria, siempre! Until victory, always!
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| flickaa Posts: 201 |
Heyyyyyyyy i diidnt say this.. my friends sister.. is in the marines thats what she told me XD
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| Anthem Posts: 674  |
For what it is worth, Can you explain or define a moral argument for communism that does not violate the rights of man. When in history did the state supersede the individual? Was there a point in history that one can say that -- We have arrived" -- as a socialist party? Does every man owe the state defacto by being born??
---- I swear by my life and love for it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor shall I ask another to live for me. John Galt
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| Ellrohir Heaven Knight Posts: 8664 |
Written by flickaa on 30.09.2009 at 03:09 so ask her, what she meant  but maybe she only said something without thinking about the meaning...
---- My rest seems now calm and deep Finally I got my dead man sleep
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| flickaa Posts: 201 |
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| FOOCK Nam Posts: 3571  |
Written by flickaa on 30.09.2009 at 17:39 yeah, and then tell me what she woul tell you XD
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| Ellrohir Heaven Knight Posts: 8664 |
What it means according to you? 
---- My rest seems now calm and deep Finally I got my dead man sleep
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| flickaa Posts: 201 |
Hahah I feel harrassed now lol it means that cuba is free from all the gross things that capitalism does.. like how people experience econimic inequality like the rich exploiting the poor and the common people are just slaves to work how the heck could someone even feel free when ur stuck in a country where everything involves a cost to something .... thats what I think it feels however its also a drink..
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| The Alchemist Metalchemist Posts: 1589  |
Well, I visited Cuba in October, 2008 and had the chance to visit some places by my own and talk with some cubans about the economic, political and social situation of the country. What the told me, and what I could see is that unfortunately there are economic and social inequality and some people feel that they're exploited by a dominant class. Of course there are some very good things that can't be found in other countries, like education, health care, a wide access to culture, very prepared people, but that doesn't mean that they're free of that bad things that capitalism brings.
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| EvilFever Posts: 7  |
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| chimx Posts: 14  |
You guys are all doing this wrong. Communism is a hypothetical economy postulated by Karl Marx given the nature of our historical epoch's current economy. The root of Marxism is historical materialism, not communism. This fact is most important and most overlooked (as is evidenced in this thread). Marxism has nothing to do with morality and indeed is completely indifferent to morality. People keep complaining about the "justice" of dividing a countries wealth, but justice never enters into the equation. To quote a French thinker that influenced Karl Marx: "A revolution is an act of sovereign justice, in the order of moral facts, springing out of the necessity of things, and in consequence carrying with it its own justification" Marxism suggests that within any political economy lays inherent economic contradictions. In feudal times there was a conflict of interest between the land-owning class and the growing artisan class (who later became capitalists). In slave economies it was a conflict of interest between the slave owning class and the growing agrarian economy. Marx suggested that a contradiction exists in modern society between the proletarian class and the property owning class. That contradiction isn't hard to see. Generally speaking, those with the money make that money off of the labor of those without money. People without money have been very angry about this contradiction for a long time. As a result laws have been passed to pacify people and perpetuate the economic hegemony of the rich: child labor laws, minimum wage laws, union laws, etc. But that doesn't mean these contradictions have been erased. Marx teaches that it is simply an historical inevitability that these contradictions will eventually come to a head. Morality will not change this and is irrelevant to this fact.
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| ForeverDarkWoods Posts: 1001  |
Written by chimx on 16.04.2011 at 00:52 Communism is the application of marxism into a political force through a working class perspective. Just like the burgeoisie fought for their class when they overthrew feudalism, the communists apply the theories of Marx into practice when fighting for the working class. It is a battle of polarized interests ehre the interests of the capital are not able to be unified with the interests of the workers. Communism refers not only to the hypothetical society without class and state, it also refers to the ideology that attempts to reach that stage of society (among others marxism-leninism, trotskyism and to a lesser extent bakuninism-kropotkinism known as anarchocommunism). Anyone who confesses to a communist ideology, is a communist. Morality, is shaped by yourself and your own state of mind. It is something subjective. Every person will shape their own morality, and the morality that communists often talk about is one of equality, freedom from exploitation, and the abolishing of wage slavery. This is not because some communist god has decreed morals to the communists, but because these things are what lies in the interests of the workers. Revolutionary propaganda does not need to be on the highest levels of philosophical correctness to fulfil it's purpose. In fact, it often works better if it is not on the level that requires you to have read The Capital in order to understand it. But you are right, Marx gave rise to what today is communism, not the other way around. One could say, though, that the theories of Marx did not rise out of nothing. Left-wing ideologies started before that, and before Marx, the dominant one was anarchism. Marx was not the first one to think of class in this way, and the interests of the early left-wing philosophers often sprung from their own set of morals. This is not to say, however, that morals gave birth to communism, since the theories were indeed the results of the contradictions within capitalism (If Marx would not have given birth to communism, somebody else would have eventually). What I am saying though, is that the word communism, can refer to both the stage of society without class or state, and to the ideologies centered around reaching that stage of society.
---- Free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction! - George W. Bush, ex-president of the United States of America
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| chimx Posts: 14 |
Personally I'm opposed to communism as ideology since it strikes me as counter-intuitive to the significance of historical materialism. Maybe its because I come at this from being a former history student, but the significance of Marx in terms of historiography is that it initiated a paradigm shift from the study of "men of history" towards the social history of today. The importance of historical materialism is that it teaches that "great men, ideology, morality, etc. do not shape human history. Rather it is economic relationships that define the progression of history. Personally I think ideology, even a communist ideology, ultimately corrupts this truth.
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| metal_communard Posts: 15 |
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| ThunderAxe1989 Account deleted |
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| FOOCK Nam Posts: 3571 |
Karl Marx fucked a lot. He got 9 kids, all had died somehow tragically and he didnt have any grand kids. Lenin no kids, Mao, trouble wife, Stalin trouble on his son, Fidel no marraige, Ho Chi Minh no wife but allegedly son... all of them need to fuck more for having happy orgasmic positive revolution freedom :p
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| ThunderAxe1989 Account deleted |
ThunderAxe1989
Account deleted
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| FOOCK Nam Posts: 3571 |
Written by [user id=160] on 09.08.2012 at 02:55 Nice site, seems they have posted a lot there, which the thing I like about a forum. would keep it.
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| theFIST Posts: 1061  |
Agreeing on doing a job for a certain pay can not be exploitation It is a job you agreed on and a pay you agreed on, it is your free decision According to the ideas of marxism employing people is exploiting them If you kept agreeing to letting someone exploit you against your will (which is self contradictory) you would have to be dumb So the core idea of marxism is that employees are complete idiots incapable of not letting people exploit them
---- http://metalstormmusicianscorner.bandcamp.com Written by Warman on 07.11.2007 at 22:39
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| Ellrohir Heaven Knight Posts: 8664 |
The problem is people dont believe they have equal position...they believe they are destined to be exploited and desperately seek for someone who will salve them...even if the salvation means slavery under different masters... another problem is jealousy - the problem isnt i have bad life, problem is someone else has better life...
---- My rest seems now calm and deep Finally I got my dead man sleep
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| theFIST Posts: 1061 |
Written by Ellrohir on 28.08.2012 at 12:43 If people think they should be someone"s servant, why shouldn"t they be? It"s their free decision, not a problem Just like everyone is free to convince them that they can have it better Also, jealousy is fueled by the idea that everyone should have a right to get the same Without that idea it could not exist enough for being a strong political force
---- http://metalstormmusicianscorner.bandcamp.com Written by Warman on 07.11.2007 at 22:39
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| Ellrohir Heaven Knight Posts: 8664 |
Written by theFIST on 29.08.2012 at 00:49 the problem is one - they wanna take me with them...and this isnt really my free decision otherwise i agree - let anyone make their own communism in a closed community of ppl...anyone free to enter...but thank you, ima out of it
---- My rest seems now calm and deep Finally I got my dead man sleep
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| theFIST Posts: 1061 |
Written by Ellrohir on 29.08.2012 at 00:57 They can want to take you with them, but not force you to come with them Closed community and anyone free to enter sounds contradictory..... Anyways, that voluntary communism is only possible if it isn"t forced through government Therefore, for any free communism to exist there"d have to be an anarcho capitalist country in which such communities could exist
---- http://metalstormmusicianscorner.bandcamp.com Written by Warman on 07.11.2007 at 22:39
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| Ellrohir Heaven Knight Posts: 8664 |
I would prefer the term "libertarian" over "anarcho-capitalist" a state that just keeps an eye over very basic rights (no murder, no stealing, no forcing other ppl) and the rest is up to people - do, what you wanna do...even communism if you want...the thing is, that most communists (or likely wanna-be-communists) want to install their system as a government for all inhabitants of the state...and there, the freedom is failing to a thing called democracy - because majority of ppl is potentially able to vote in something like that, despite the minority who doesnt want it and will be hardly affected... i just hope it wont happen in my country, but it seems possible...old communist party overthrown in 1989 is having like 20% and with other left-winged party should be able to have majority in next election...thank you, i dont want your justice and new order :?
---- My rest seems now calm and deep Finally I got my dead man sleep
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| theFIST Posts: 1061 |
Written by Ellrohir on 29.08.2012 at 01:30 Maybe you"d have a chance to change the results in your country by starting a free market party You"d just have to convince enough people that it"s the right way for getting into parliament, then you could be the opposition party to inform people of the bad left wing legislation and gain popularity by slowing them down A few elections later you"d have the people behind you
---- http://metalstormmusicianscorner.bandcamp.com Written by Warman on 07.11.2007 at 22:39
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| Ellrohir Heaven Knight Posts: 8664 |
Written by theFIST on 29.08.2012 at 02:00 there already is such a party - http://www.svobodni.cz/3-kdo-jsme/51-english-page and i am obviously a voter, i am considering membership and i am working on convincing ppl around me...but atm the party have estimated 3% of voters...maybe we'll get a few MPs in next election, but first our country will have to survive a couple of left-winged governments  what sucks is, that currently we have a government made of "right-winged" parties, but their actions are maybe even more left-sided  but people believe it are the signs of capitalism, so they are going to vote for left-wing parties, some of them even for commies
---- My rest seems now calm and deep Finally I got my dead man sleep
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| theFIST Posts: 1061 |
Written by Ellrohir on 29.08.2012 at 09:47 The problem is that people believe that left right thing, yet the so called social market is economic fascism, so of course both sides want it, as it is clearly left and right and profitable for those in charge Glad that there is such a party, sounds good what they have on that page, but it needs to more effectively teach people that there can"t be negative effects of capitalism when there is none
---- http://metalstormmusicianscorner.bandcamp.com Written by Warman on 07.11.2007 at 22:39
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