I meant strong mentally. But holy shit, I didn't know you had such problems.

"I know that. In fact that's why I'm an egotistical dude who denies what others purport to be above-average intelligence, while at the same time subconsciously believing it, leading to a superiority complex and acting it out through use of terminology and a sardonic character who always challenges other people's views and deep down sees them as unworthy of respect or as everyday annoyances with a superiority complex."

I know a couple of guys like you. One of them was a friend of mine, but I don't think he's a genuinely good person, I hope that's not the case with you. And I've only recently come to terms myself that I'm not as shitty as I would "like" myself to be, as confused as that sounds. But I tried the "method" described above and I dunno, I think it's working for me.

Written by vezzy on 15.12.2011 at 21:23
I know that. In fact that's why I'm an egotistical dude who denies what others purport to be above-average intelligence, while at the same time subconsciously believing it, leading to a superiority complex and acting it out through use of terminology and a sardonic character who always challenges other people's views and deep down sees them as unworthy of respect or as everyday annoyances with a superiority complex.

That's the epitome of... I dunno, something. I identify completely with what you say (I judge myself as myself and as others would judge me therefore I have a split understanding of the man behind the mask) but I'm not sure how to like... make this go anywhere. Probably because it's an issue I myself have yet to come over so I can't really give any solid advice, since the advice I've been working on obviously hasn't led to any sort of progression.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 15.12.2011 at 21:39

Written by vezzy on 15.12.2011 at 21:23
I know that. In fact that's why I'm an egotistical dude who denies what others purport to be above-average intelligence, while at the same time subconsciously believing it, leading to a superiority complex and acting it out through use of terminology and a sardonic character who always challenges other people's views and deep down sees them as unworthy of respect or as everyday annoyances with a superiority complex.

That's the epitome of... I dunno, something. I identify completely with what you say (I judge myself as myself and as others would judge me therefore I have a split understanding of the man behind the mask) but I'm not sure how to like... make this go anywhere. Probably because it's an issue I myself have yet to come over so I can't really give any solid advice, since the advice I've been working on obviously hasn't led to any sort of progression.

You two. Next time you start bringing yourself down and making you all confused, try standing in front of the mirror and take a good look at yourselves, then ask yourselves:"What the fuck am I doing to myself? Do I like being the victim that much that I'm inventing elaborate schemes to devalue myself that I don't even believe in anymore? Is it time to move on and do some shit?" That's what I also do in such cases.

Written by Milena on 15.12.2011 at 21:41
try standing in front of the mirror

No no no no no, mirrors and I don't agree at all.

If I look at myself in the mirror I'll just fall victim to my own scrutinies. I already had a mild brush with anorexia, I don't need to remind myself of my imperfections.

Written by [user id=114127] on 15.12.2011 at 21:44
I'll delete the post and apologise.

That's why I like you Fredd.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 15.12.2011 at 21:44

No no no no no, mirrors and I don't agree at all.

If I look at myself in the mirror I'll just fall victim to my own scrutinies. I already had a mild brush with anorexia, I don't need to remind myself of my imperfections.

I have more than a passing dispute with mirrors as well, but looking at your own eyes doubles your strength. That's what the almighty Pratchett said. And I believe him. If you look at yourself slapping yourself, that's one mighty mental image anyway.

It's true, I'm not genuinely good. Simply put, being the "intellectual asshole" is how I deal with my psychological instabilities. I used to live with my schizophrenic mother for years, before she eventually succumbed to cancer. It's a long story, but it has shaped up about 80% of my character.

In fact, I think that if my mother wasn't an emotionally abusive schizophrenic, I'd be speaking English on a lower level, have a lesser knowledge of history and human issues in general and I'd probably not even get into metal. I'd be a pop listener like the rest.

@Fredd: I was gonna call you an Indian giver, but decided that it was too offensive.

So I'll just call you a no good S.O.B. instead.

Written by vezzy on 15.12.2011 at 21:49

It's true, I'm not genuinely good. Simply put, being the "intellectual asshole" is how I deal with my psychological instabilities. I used to live with my schizophrenic mother for years, before she eventually succumbed to cancer. It's a long story, but it has shaped up about 80% of my character.

In fact, I think that if my mother wasn't an emotionally abusive schizophrenic, I'd be speaking English on a lower level, have a lesser knowledge of history and human issues in general and I'd probably not even get into metal. I'd be a pop listener like the rest.

@Fredd: I was gonna call you an Indian giver, but decided that it was too offensive.

So I'll just call you a no good S.O.B. instead.

Yeah, but you know what else? Most "intellectual assholes" aren't aware of that, and you are. So that means,

a) you're not really like that and you'll grow out of it
b) and if you are, that means you're ready to make a change for the better.


Edit: And if you feel like quitting, no pressure, just keep that "epiphany" you just had somewhere in the back of your mind in case you ever wish to give yourself a wake-up call.

Written by Milena on 15.12.2011 at 21:54
Yeah, but you know what else? Most "intellectual assholes" aren't aware of that, and you are. So that means,

a) you're not really like that and you'll grow out of it
b) and if you are, that means you're ready to make a change for the better.

I am self-aware, yes. That's why I didn't give a fuck when my mother died. Even though I felt a little remorseful afterwards, it's all over now, so yeah. I actually shocked my peers with my apathy and intentionally twisted, dark-humored edge on the subject. Seriously, they freaked out. Epic lulz.

Oh, I don't really want to change. I mean, I do, but I can't actually drive myself to it, so it's about equal, I'm an indifferent slob. In fact, I see myself as a person who has to stand to prove his point, that through sheer arrogance and the ability to belittle others' intelligence with my factology-based mental submachine gun, I can take anyone down.

I can always dream. Too bad all of my dreams are either unnervingly surreal messes or downright nightmares.

Written by vezzy on 15.12.2011 at 21:58

I am self-aware, yes. That's why I didn't give a fuck when my mother died. Even though I felt a little remorseful afterwards, it's all over now, so yeah. I actually shocked my peers with my apathy and intentionally twisted, dark-humored edge on the subject. Seriously, they freaked out. Epic lulz.

Oh, I don't really want to change. I mean, I do, but I can't actually drive myself to it, so it's about equal, I'm an indifferent slob. In fact, I see myself as a person who has to stand to prove his point, that through sheer arrogance and the ability to belittle others' intelligence with my factology-based mental submachine gun, I can take anyone down.

I can always dream. Too bad all of my dreams are either unnervingly surreal messes or downright nightmares.

Like I said, no pressure, it's your life, but if you ever snap out of it, you'll wish you've wasted less time in your life.

Written by Milena on 15.12.2011 at 22:03

Like I said, no pressure, it's your life, but if you ever snap out of it, you'll wish you've wasted less time in your life.

Trolling MS is definitely not a waste of time.

I mean, what waste? This is a pretty interesting phase to go through. Don't forget hormonal imbalance. Seriously, fuck that guy.

There are some "advices" that just plain suck...

Alright, this may be a long one. And probably a self-centered, non-coherent rant but if it can help anyone, I will be happy for it.

I'm a repeat offender for "mild depression" and the poster child for "why the hell would you be depressed?". Good grades in school then steady job, good friends, funny guy.

My first and third encounters with depression were because I was overworked. Med school (which I failed) and my last job were environments that sucked the energy and the joy of life out of me. These were times where the only things the future promised were failures because of unattainable objectives.

The second encounter was the hardest of them. I had finished college, had the baddest of heartbreaks, and my parents broke up. My father never seemed like a bad person but was an alcoholic and egoism incarnate in a very "oblivious to everything" kind of way. It also appeared at that time, that he was an adulterous bastard. This separation, the humiliation of my mother, the fact that I had to tell my father to leave the family house, crying over a love that was not reciprocal and starting a new life in a new city knowing no one was a lot to bear. The loneliness made my "personality" collapse.

I've always been the stereotypical nerd: math, RPGs, comic books and all that? I learned early that nerds are being picked on. So like many others, I built myself a funny guy and I became it. My parents had very high expectations of me. "Get a good diploma". "Get a good job". And so I did. But at that time, I had no one to laugh with, no one expecting anything from me (especially not my parents that looked as weak as ever), no goals. And I was utterly unable to find enjoyment in the usual things that made happy before.

I felt like a no one going nowhere but certain death after a long grey life of identical boring days repeating over and over.

Getting out of it is hard. I'm not out of it yet. There are still times when life seems like a very slow version of Hell. I don't know if I ever can get out of it completely.

But getting better is possible.

I have professional help. My therapist is the kind that listens a lot, ask seemingly innocent questions that actually relates to the topics that hurts. I'm learning to know myself and it helps me building what feels an actual self, a true self that I will one day look in the eye and be proud of.

I also had medical help. I was under anti-depressants for a year and a half. These drugs are double-edge. They give you relief but they can dull every emotions. They did for me. You should use the time you are on the drugs to build up the strength to quit them.

And along my recovery I'm learning a few things to continue getting better. And there goes the bullet points.

First and most important, realizing that this is the one slowest thing I have ever undertaken. I take 2 steps forwards and I'm pushed one step back by reality. This is a work of endurance. And I think it should be slow, dramatic changes in the right direction don't stick.

Know your true friends, those who know how to listen and are willing to. Don't abuse of their generosity but don't use them as a last resort when their help can be beneficial early. Share with them when things are getting better. Be there for them when shit hit their fan.

Corollary: communicate. It helps sorting out what's irrational thinking and what's the heart of the issue. Be open about your situation, you will find help in unexpected places. People gave me advices going from downright ridiculous (holistic healers) to the surprisingly good (made me read a short philosophy book about being happy as a materialist ("matter is all there is in this universe")).

It's okay to be selfish. Screw your dysfunctional family. Screw african kids. When you are in a bad place, then your life is the priority. You can help those who cannot help you when you feel better.

Screw guilt: I'm still working on this one ^^'. The counterpart of willingly acting selfish can seems to me downright evil. I usually think hard on it and seek forgiveness when it's appropriate.

Willpower is a muscle. When apathy sapped me of motivation I did small things and learn to take pride in the smallest thing. Every time I resisted food, cigarette or alcohol even in the slightest, I congratulated myself. And I built on it, small steps by small steps.

Don't "fake it till you make it" (sorry Mora ^^). Try small. Fail. Try small again. Fail again. Try small again. Succeed. Try small again. Succeed. Try a little bigger. Fail? You get it.

Don't be a cynic. But don't wear pink glasses. Learn to see things as they are. Work to change them if you can. Accept them if you must. Sometimes fleeing something, so long as it is permanent, is also the right choice.

Corollary: work hard with minimal expectations. Prepare for failure.

Break your unbelievable standards. I still carry the dream of excellency that my parents put in me. I'm learning to ignore it and to set myself on roads rather than on goals.

Learn to rest. I don't do anything worthwhile for me when I'm mentally exhausted. I force myself to go to bed early most of the time. When sleep eludes I meditate.

If you're curious, learn to meditate. It's a relief.

Identify toxic people and limit your exposure to them. Especially permanently angry or passive aggressive people whose words will hurt you.

There is a lot of things I'm still struggling with: getting rid of guilt, ridiculous standards, getting close to someone new again.

None of this is easy. This is the hardest, slowest thing I have ever done.

Damn, I should make this into lyrics of the next In Flames album.

Written by Qube on 16.12.2011 at 01:26
I'm learning to know myself and it helps me building what feels an actual self, a true self that I will one day look in the eye and be proud of.

That's really the best thing anyone can do when they find themselves in that kind of depression. Knowing yourself is key to being able to identify your triggers and what it takes to bring a more uplifting attitude to the table, even when a part of you thinks it's impossible. Hoping to be proud of yourself in the future only asserts you that one day you will be, it gives your mind a goal and that gives you the mental strength to strive for your best and achieve your potential as a stable, happy person.

Written by Qube on 16.12.2011 at 01:26


Learn to rest. I don't do anything worthwhile for me when I'm mentally exhausted. I force myself to go to bed early most of the time. When sleep eludes I meditate.

If you're curious, learn to meditate. It's a relief.

Your whole list is quite interesting but this in particular is something I am looking into. I think it could benefit me in a lot of ways.

Written by vezzy on 15.12.2011 at 21:58

In fact, I see myself as a person who has to stand to prove his point, that through sheer arrogance and the ability to belittle others' intelligence with my factology-based mental submachine gun, I can take anyone down.

So this means that once someone completely obliterates you in a debate, you loose your raison d'être? Let me know when you're up for a duel to the death

Here's what I actually think about this: people who are desperate to win debates, desperate to prove that they are right every single time, are losers. I would know. I envy those who had a normal up-bringing, I envy people who do not know what it is like to be 10 years old and beg God for death. I cannot do what they can, I cannot sustain a relationship (I am too scared to fking try), I cannot be a winner in life. But I sure as hell can beat anyone I know in real life in a debate. Is this an achievement? No, not really. Because while other people are out there enjoying their youth and their life, I am sitting at home reading Mortimer Adler and Christopher Hitchens, which is truly pathetic. Winning debates is a consolation prize for people who cannot win in life. Maybe that only applies to myself though. Every man mistakes the limits of his own vision for the limits of the world.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 16.12.2011 at 01:32

Written by Qube on 16.12.2011 at 01:26
I'm learning to know myself and it helps me building what feels an actual self, a true self that I will one day look in the eye and be proud of.

That's really the best thing anyone can do when they find themselves in that kind of depression. Knowing yourself is key to being able to identify your triggers and what it takes to bring a more uplifting attitude to the table, even when a part of you thinks it's impossible. Hoping to be proud of yourself in the future only asserts you that one day you will be, it gives your mind a goal and that gives you the mental strength to strive for your best and achieve your potential as a stable, happy person.

Qube, that was an awesome post, very relatable. And I agree with Troy as well.

Do you guys feel like this thread is becoming something more than first meets the eye?

Written by Milena on 16.12.2011 at 11:52

Qube, that was an awesome post, very relatable. And I agree with Troy as well.

Do you guys feel like this thread is becoming something more than first meets the eye?

Thanks Mora,

I don't know what you mean by "more than meets the eye" but I think it is great that the thread can be used to talk about how we cope and move forward with mental difficulties just as much as how we suffer from them.

I'm too tired to explain, but I will

Something for cases of emergency: http://make-everything-ok.com/

Buttttt...do people in you guys country discriminate to mental patient/people ? Glad to know : )

Written by [user id=105293] on 16.12.2011 at 11:41
Amazon.com's users recommend this

Your debates suffer from "tl;dr syndrome" - pretending you know what the fuck you're talking about by typing a lot of words.

So bring it on.

Written by vezzy on 16.12.2011 at 13:52

Your debates suffer from "tl;dr syndrome" - pretending you know what the fuck you're talking about by typing a lot of words.

No. Just no. I also don't take things personally, so I can actually focus on the topic that is being discussed and not on my opponent.

Written by [user id=105293] on 16.12.2011 at 14:24
No. Just no. I also don't take things personally, so I can actually focus on the topic that is being discussed and not on my opponent.

Okay then, I'll PM you later about the debate...

For now, I'll just be a depressed sobsack.

Written by vezzy on 16.12.2011 at 15:01

Okay then, I'll PM you later about the debate...

For now, I'll just be a depressed sobsack.

I have to go the psychiatrist myself today (really I do, I am not just saying this to stay on topic), so don't expect a response right away. But I'll be waiting.

Written by [user id=105293] on 16.12.2011 at 11:41

Written by vezzy on 15.12.2011 at 21:58

In fact, I see myself as a person who has to stand to prove his point, that through sheer arrogance and the ability to belittle others' intelligence with my factology-based mental submachine gun, I can take anyone down.

So this means that once someone completely obliterates you in a debate, you loose your raison d'être? Let me know when you're up for a duel to the death

Here's what I actually think about this: people who are desperate to win debates, desperate to prove that they are right every single time, are losers. I would know. I envy those who had a normal up-bringing, I envy people who do not know what it is like to be 10 years old and beg God for death. I cannot do what they can, I cannot sustain a relationship (I am too scared to fking try), I cannot be a winner in life. But I sure as hell can beat anyone I know in real life in a debate. Is this an achievement? No, not really. Because while other people are out there enjoying their youth and their life, I am sitting at home reading Mortimer Adler and Christopher Hitchens, which is truly pathetic. Winning debates is a consolation prize for people who cannot win in life. Maybe that only applies to myself though. Every man mistakes the limits of his own vision for the limits of the world.

Your "winning in debate" attitude is very nice. I just would recommend you "winning for good reason and by good reason to each debate"...I have a very stupid uncle who actually has mental traits as I observe, he is poor financially, no education, no movie, no Hollywood movies, no books, little newspaper, very stupid, everybody know how he is, he feel self-conscious himself, so he always ridiculously argues debate on everything with everybody even with his wife and his children... and he always must make him right, which is very stupid, annoying, and irritating.

I think beating in debate is not easy, not to mention a lot of debates. I have good reasoning skill, but to make it flow from my mouth I cant.

It is very nice to win in debates, but everyone would not always be right, so not all the times we debate and can win, so I guess winning not because of self conscious is very important thing. And I guess if you really interests in what you debates as well as having knowledge on it, it can be no WRONG debate, then even wining or losing still make you better double, : )

Written by FOOCK Nam on 16.12.2011 at 15:32

Your "winning in debate" attitude is very nice.

It's not an attitude actually, it is more like a subconscious need or something. I have also considered the possibility that I actually wish for someone to defeat me in a debate, to completely and utterly destroy all my arguments, because then maybe I would believe that person more than myself when it comes to my own worth. I am pretty good at convincing my friends that they are good people and that their mistakes do not erase the good that they have done and continue to do to me and others. I have the ability to make a person realize his/her own worth. I can make depressed people laugh and feel happy, I really can. I could convince anyone that they are great, but never myself. I am never better at argumentation than I am when I criticize myself. I know this doesn't make too much sense right now without some kind of a back-story of my life, which I do intend to reveal when I have the time to write it. I love this topic

Written by [user id=105293] on 16.12.2011 at 15:46

Written by FOOCK Nam on 16.12.2011 at 15:32

Your "winning in debate" attitude is very nice.

It's not an attitude actually, it is more like a subconscious need or something. I have also considered the possibility that I actually wish for someone to defeat me in a debate, to completely and utterly destroy all my arguments, because then maybe I would believe that person more than myself when it comes to my own worth. I am pretty good at convincing my friends that they are good people and that their mistakes do not erase the good that they have done and continue to do to me and others. I have the ability to make a person realize his/her own worth. I can make depressed people laugh and feel happy, I really can. I could convince anyone that they are great, but never myself. I am never better at argumentation than I am when I criticize myself. I know this doesn't make too much sense right now without some kind of a back-story of my life, which I do intend to reveal when I have the time to write it. I love this topic

Ok reveal your story soon . But I dont get the point that you can cheers people up for their laugh and happy then why consider yourself not a winner in life ?

I myself good at pleasing other people but that is because my accommodating and because I feel weaker than their toughness (of course depends on who I encounter), but I know my pleasing other people is FAKE.

If you are genuinely that could cheer other people up then it is good for life, why yourself not a winner ?

Written by [user id=105293] on 16.12.2011 at 15:46
I have the ability to make a person realize his/her own worth. I can make depressed people laugh and feel happy, I really can. I could convince anyone that they are great, but never myself.

Believe me, there's no way in hell you could convince me that I'm great... there's not a single person on this planet who is capable of that.

No offense to anyone here, but I find these sort of discussions a bit way too serious for an Online metal forum...

Written by Slayer666 on 16.12.2011 at 18:57

No offense to anyone here, but I find these sort of discussions a bit way too serious for an Online metal forum...

For me too, but if it helps people vent and get their problems out there then I guess it's a useful tool.